Roads to Safe Places

Yeah, my parents didn't think about that, but it worked out quite alright. I had a fight about it with a friend while we walked home, I insisted that the Christkind brings the presents, she insisted he doesn't, we both asked our parents.

And ultimately, what was worst about the situation was not that I had been wrong about this in front of a friend, my friend was pretty fine with it, as it was a common thing to get wrong and a novelty for her, too, but that "but my mother said" did not prove to be the rock-solid evidence it used to be. :D

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Oh well, I'll be the dissenting voice. :) I would want her fired as well.

Is it because I don't want my precious snowflakes to know that there isn't a Santa Claus? No, it's not necessarily that (though I would be uber-pissed about having to explain because some idiot felt it necessary to tell them that).

My understanding is that the class was a bit rowdy with excitement about the upcoming holidays and she said that almost in an attempt to calm them down.

So yes, if she can't stay in control of the class without resorting to those types of tactics, she shouldn't be teaching in my opinion. It was a spiteful thing to do to a child and that type of attitude doesn't belong in a classroom. Was there any educational benefit to telling a class of kids that Santa doesn't exist? No, she told them that because she wanted them to settle down.

Madison, at 7 yrs old, probably has one year, two at the most before she figures it out. When she asks (and I know she will come to me with 'that look
' on her face) I will tell her the truth.

*hugs* to you and Crocky

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but they weren't firing her for not handling her class well enough while they were rowdy.

they were firing her for killing the spirit of santa. >>

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Actually, I don't think she's fired as she was a substitute teacher. (Unless, of course, I am mixing things up - I'm assuming it's similar there as it is here). As a substitute teacher, she is contacted by the school to fill in for a regular teacher, so it is at their discretion as to whether she works or not. I would think firing her would be far more difficult depending on tenure or whatever.

She was controlling a class of 7 yr olds through vindicative behavior and not through skill. There was no reason to tell them that Santa didn't exist except that she was frustrated over their behavior and wanted them to stop it. It's not so much what she said as why she did it. If she doesn't have the patience to deal with younger kids, she shouldn't be there.

If a teacher reduces a class of 7 yr olds to tears, there's probably a problem present. Seven year olds have their moments, but they are still at an age where they are eager to please. To have several students upset over a teacher's behavior is a problem. She sounds like a bully to me.

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well, the article doesn't seem to paint it that way. it's very possible that she was behaving the way you interpreted it, and, in that case, i'd agree with you that she wasn't doing her job well at all, but it's hard to tell exactly what was going on from so little information.

in a way, i have to suspect you're probably right; with my experiences with most of public schoolteachers, it's more about utilizing power than providing that power for the good of one's class. i imagine that a lot of my old teachers would love to make a bunch of 7-year-olds cry to let off some steam. >>

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Hm, I thought they fired her as a sub and won't rehire her as a consequence, but maybe I don't understand the substitute programme properly.

As for the class being in tears - I thought that had to be journalistic licence. I cannot imagine anyone who teaches those young ages actually setting out to make the kids cry or be so vindictive as to behave in the way you describe, really, but maybe, I'm too optimistic. :)

Since the article focused so strongly on the aftermath of the Santa dilemma for the parents and presented this as the main reason why she was fired I thought that was the basis of the school's decisions.
It really threw me that even after this parents would find excuses to tell their kids Santa exists after all. o_O

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Yip, that's how I read it, too.

I can't really believe any teacher who teaches that age group would want to be consciously cruel to seven-year olds. :( Maybe I just had really nice teachers, though.

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That's fine, Sil. :) How are you?

Hm, I must have read the article differently. I thought she had said it accidentally, that's why I didn't understand the parental uproar. If she did what you did, I'd agree, that's not an attitude a teacher should have and she deserves to be in trouble for that kind of behaviour, but that's not what I read, really.

Also - is it common in the US that kids can maintain their belief in Santa/the Easter bunny even after they go to school? Because it seems to be fairly common over here that most kids are told by older kids over here.

*hugs* And hopefully you and your family will have a great Christmas this year!!

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Things are well, thanks :) We made our last out of town visit this week-end, so I'm happily settling down to tree decorating, cookie baking and (unfortunately, due to peer pressure) elf-buying (but more on that later).

I checked several articles before writing my last response because I had seen this debate on several boards I frequent. She was a substitute and is still going to teach at other schools just not at that one. I don't think she is a cruel person just that she doesn't do well with younger children (nothing wrong with that either). I think she reached for the quickest thing to make them settle down and opened her mouth and came out with that. I have to believe it was said almost vindicatively because the follow up behind it was really nothing. She could've said she was just joking or anything, but I've read nothing to indicate that she tried to repair the harm she caused. Of course, I could be a pessimist and Christmas is hands-down my favorite time of the year. (Misha was born on Christmas Eve and Mary Charles had her birthday last Friday). One of my friends had a son who was told by a friend that the parents were Santa. My friend told her son that some kids are soooo naughty that their parents have to pretend to be Santa because Santa won't come to their house. lol Personally, if the cat was out of the bag about Santa, I would tell them the truth.

I would guess that Christmas is probably the only time of the year where people think about others and not so much themselves. There are Secret Santa programs, mitten/scarves/hats trees for those who don't have them, food drives and general gift giving to people who don't always receive thanks (teachers, mail carriers, maids, etc). Christmas brings out a spirit that I wish people would have throughout the year. I see nothing wrong with letting children believe in Santa because the end goal (in my opinion) is to make them want to "be" a Santa to others they come across. As long as they can remember the surprise and delight on Christmas morning at seeing the "magic" from Santa, they can realize that they can give that same feeling to others. And not just on Christmas Day too.

Yes, kids can maintain their belief in Santa, Easter Bunny (and tooth fairy) after going to school. I'd say definitely through Elementary (3rd grade) and sometimes farther (depending on the parents). One of my friends has a son who is 12 this year and still believes. Each year, he doubts a bit more and has done things like hide his list to Santa, ask a friend to mail it, etc. Each year, she finds a way to get his list so she can make sure she has the little things on it that keep him believing. (For the record, I think that's going a bit far, but that's her business and she has fun with Christmas). Also keep in mind that we live in a rather affluent area (though I need to mention that we are nowhere near as well off as our neighbors) which does make it easier to maintain. Last year we pondered over having Santa actually show up at our house on Christmas Day (we know a Santa and he offered us first choice to rent him). We decided against it, but it was a fun thought.

-continued because i talk too much-

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-Continued from above-

Christmas elves are also popular here and I'm about to go shopping for one for our house. Since I'm not sure if you do elves, I'll give a brief explanation (we didn't when I was growing up). You crumble some crackers and wish for an elf (leaving the crackers crumbled on the counter). That makes the elf "appear" the next morning, sitting somewhere high out of reach. The first rule is that you can't touch the elf or his magic disappears and he becomes just a doll. The elf sits in different places (moved each night) and watches to make sure you're being good (he reports back to Santa). Sometimes he makes messes and spills things like flour. During the month of December, he leaves gifts every night for the children in the house. (These are usually small things like pieces of candy, pencils, coloring books, etc - some elves have been known to leave outfits, jewelry and dvd's). I had hoped to avoid the elf, but Madison's friends have been asking what the elf has left her and she has reached the unfortunate conclusion that the elf must not be coming because we don't have regular crackers (we're on a gluten free diet due to her Celiac Disease and she thinks that elves must not like gluten free things *sigh*). So, I am elf-shopping and tomorrow a little elf will be perched up in our tree for his first day of good child watching. ;)

*hugs* back :) I hope your Christmas is wonderful as well!

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Wow. Twelve. That is old for a child to believe in Santa, and without knowing the family it sounds somewhat creepy. I wonder why the boy never questions things more thoroughly, and I really hope that the poor kid doesn't get made fun of at school.

If the teacher really did what you said, then she probably really shouldn't teach that age group right now. Classes, especially rowdy classes, can grind on the most patient nerves, but if this was done in an attempt to calm them down, she's really doing it wrong and needs to find different ways to control her class.

Madison's explanation for her elflessness is the most adorable thing. The elf thing sounds like a fun way of giving children an self-made advent calender. It's a bit odd to have yet another entity introduced into the Christmas season. Do you know where this tradition comes from? I've never heard of that before.

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The family's not creepy, I promise. :) lol The mom (my best friend) is someone who really, really loves Christmas. I don't think he's been made fun of, at least I'm hoping not.

I'm not sure where the elf tradition started, but it's fun. The girls woke up and saw the elf and came running back to our room to wake us up and tell us. They've named him Fred. (I'm not sure why, but I'm hoping for a harry potter reference lol)

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I've never believed in Santa or the Easter bunny, though, from my experience, most kids do learn that they aren't real through older children.

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Really? Huh. How did you react when other kids started talking about the Easter bunny and whatnot? o.O

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I don't really remember. I don't think a lot of them really believed in them, either. xD

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rizardofoz.livejournal.com

I was 7 and in second grade, so it was after the beginning of school and it was a fellow classmate who mentioned it. It set off a little verbal argument, but after thinking a while, I became skeptical. Then, next year, I told my parents that yeah not convinced.

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Ah, so it was long after beginning school in your case, too. Huh. Maybe it was just our older kids were eager to share the news of non-existing entities.

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krakelwok.livejournal.com

I can't remember ever believing in any supernatural entities bringing presents and candy for any holiday.

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Hey, that's interesting. How did you react when friends talked about the Christkind or the Weihnachtsmann or whatever entity has spare time to bring presents in your area, though?

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krakelwok.livejournal.com

The same way I react to people today talking about their religiousness - I think to myself, "Whatever makes you happier" and don't breach the subject myself. Besides, I like some traditions, that's why I don't go up in arms whenever customs are brought up that defy whatever I might believe.

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