"The notion that women have to want sex to enjoy it is a really misguided idea."

[mothwing]

Stupidity in the Sidney Morning Herald brought to my attention by feminist_rage :

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Women should say yes, yes, yes more

Jennie Curtin
February 28, 2009

Forty years after liberated women felt able to say "no" to their partners' demands for sex, they have been urged to say "yes" more often to keep their men happy.

Sex therapist and psychologist Bettina Arndt said different libidos were creating a generation of men who were "miserable, angry and really disappointed" that their need for sex was "being totally disregarded in their relationship".

Arndt has written a book based on the diaries of 98 couples, who kept records of their sex lives for periods from six to 12 months. The Sex Diaries, an excerpt of which appears in Good Weekend today, revealed women dreading bedtime and men hurting from rejection.

A woman, 54, from Hobart spent the first 10 years of her marriage fighting about sex, always nervous about an unwanted advance. "He'd be snoring loudly and I'd still lie there worrying that the hand was going to come creeping over."

On the other hand, a 43-year-old Townsville man wrote: "I just feel so lonely. We get on really well, we don't fight or argue, but when it comes to intimacy, or sex, she doesn't want to know."

Arndt said while giving women the right to say "no" to sex was an undisputed success of the women's movement, "the female libido tends to be a fragile, easily distracted thing that gets buffeted by normal life and a couple can't afford to have their intimacy reliant on that fragility".

"Mismatched desire is the burning issue, it's what is filling the waiting rooms of sex therapists all over the world," she said. "I have spent half my life hearing from sex-starved men and the women saying, 'Oh, do I have to?"'

Arndt was surprised at the openness of the men, who traditionally have been reluctant to discuss such matters.

"They don't know what's hit them," Arndt said. "They listen to what women want, try to please them and … this need that is so important to them is totally ignored. Sex is just one area in relationships where men now are on the back foot."

She said one man, a 66-year-old from Darwin, eventually gave up and told his wife: "I'll make no advances or ask for sex until you ask me." The result? "In the last eight years there has been no sex in our marriage at all," he wrote.

Arndt said low-libido partners, which are mostly women, needed to put sex on the "to-do list", even if they didn't feel like doing it.

"The notion that women have to want sex to enjoy it has been a really misguided idea that has caused havoc in relationships over the last 40 years."

With the right approach from a loving partner, if women were willing to be receptive "and allow themselves to relax … they would enjoy it", she said.
 

How dare these people refuse sex to their poor, hard-working spouses, they had better get busy and earn their keep! These poor people with high sex drives really can't be expected to find different ways to deal with their sex drives.

I know that mismatched sex drives can be difficult to handle for couples, and I understand the wish to give occasional favours, as long as everything stays mutual, but so simply expecting the low-sex-drive partner to provide sex for the other...? Seriously. Lying in the dark, dreading a hand "creeping over" does not sound what happens between loving partners to me.

I don't know what bothers me more, the lack of earth logic, or the fact that this is the opinion of a sex therapist. Who works with real patients.

Comments

[lordhellebore]

How dare these people...

Is that where your commentary starts? There was no real distinction.

I don't know what to say to this.

The notion that women have to want sex to enjoy it has been a really misguided idea

That sentence? SO MUCH FAIL! How can anyone not see that his idea opens the door to sexual abuse - WIDE!? "You don't want it, but hey, you'll like it anyway..." Yeah, where did I come across that one? Wait: Pascal! Yeah. Not impressed.

I can post this too, right?

[mothwing.livejournal.com]

Oh, bugger. Yes, that's it, my div tags keep being gobbled up by the page.

That does sound a lot like him, now you mention it. >:( I really don't know where this woman got her ideas from, but the way the article mentions that she found it so odd that the men were so eager to talk about this makes me wonder if she doesn't feel sorry for them and takes their side. She seems to be imply that those not wanting sex are withholding some sort of right, am I the only one who reads it that way? o.O

Sure, go ahead.

[lordhellebore]

She seems to be imply that those not wanting sex are withholding some sort of right, am I the only one who reads it that way? o.O

Nah, you're not, I'm reading it the exact same way. And now listen to this: I'm on a "Christian" marriage board ("The Marriage Bed") that has mainly ugly fundies, and there is a section called "Sexual Refusal". Most people there have THIS. EXACT. MINDSET. It drives me up the walls.

[mothwing.livejournal.com]

Hm, I only skimmed the essay section of that site, and I was actually surprised to find the essays far less idiotic than I thought they would be, but upon skimming the message board, I really like how they listed "Refusal" under "Sexual Sins". O_o

Oh, my goodness, they have a poll...
"I have the higher desire - sexual refusal is a very real sin. 37%"
D: What on earth is wrong with these people...!

[lordhellebore]

The essays are kind of borderline okay - some of them As soon as it gets to fun things like BDSM etc, they're dumb :P Of course, that goes for all things they call "sexual sins" as well.

Wrong? Oh, they just take a book from 200 years ago literally in their own cultural context. And of course don't think one bit, at least not along the lines of common sense.

[mothwing.livejournal.com]

They are? Read the ones on Covenant/Headship. D/s at it finest. Gender stereotypes galore, obviously.

I don't get fundies. I get wanting a mental security blanket and the feeling that you know The Ultimate Answer To Absolutely Everything, but this kind of stubborn mindset and denial of realities like the importance of historical context is just so... dumb.

[krakelwok.livejournal.com]

Ich finde es etwas, hm, seltsam, dass Sexualität unter "ehelichen Pflichten" im Gesetz als Thema nicht auftaucht, aber trotzdem alle Welt zuerst daran denkt, wenn von "ehelichen Pflichten" die Rede ist.

[bronnyelsp.livejournal.com]

I'm really curious about what this translates as!!!

[krakelwok.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry. I said I find it a tad curious that, at least in German law, sexuality doesn't fall under "marital duties", but that sexuality is what most people perceive as "marital duties" in general usage.

[mothwing.livejournal.com]

It's probably because all other "laws" and duties are not exclusive to being married, while sex and baby production are traditionally the main purpose of getting married.

[krakelwok.livejournal.com]

HA! That view is as demeaning to men as it is to women. I'm no sperm dispenser!

[crocky-wock.livejournal.com]

Hm. Until a few decades ago people did actually consider sexual intercourse a marital duty. And while we think ourselves a little more liberal nowadays, most people still think of sex as something the heterosexual wife "grants" her husband. The gap between "sex is something to be willingly provided" and "sex is something that ought to be given if required" isn't that big. In order to avoid the latter, the public mindset would have to change to something entirely else. Maybe something in the direction of reciprocity.
I am not too sure that I am surprised about people still calling sex a marital duty. Perhaps our mindset has not changed as much as we would like if compared to the 1950s.

[mothwing.livejournal.com]

It really hasn't.

Also: go here (http://themarriagebed.com/boards/index.php) and check the section labelled "Sexual Sins".

[crocky-wock.livejournal.com]

if women were willing to be receptive "and allow themselves to relax … they would enjoy it"
...and think of England.

"Oooh, I'm all for women's rights because it is the politically correct thing to do, but really I just think women ought to be their husbands' caregivers. Who cares whether they get any fulfilment out of it or not?"

I can't believe that the underlying assumption in this article seems to be that women have a naturally lower libido than men and that this is what needs to be counteracted. Beware the idea that we have a bunch of men here who just never learned that sex is a two-sided game. This, plus monogamy seems to me the most likely reason why a woman would "just not feel like sex" for eight years or more.

[mothwing.livejournal.com]

I can't believe that the underlying assumption in this article seems to be that women have a naturally lower libido than men
Yep, that's what I read, too. I don't know about "counteracted", but from what they say in the article, it seems as though they don't care what wives feel either way, as long as they provide sex for their men.

What I find interesting about the eight-year-example is that this therapist seems to imply that the woman not putting out regardless of her own feelings is the problem if a couple does not have sex for eight years...

Also: S04E03? You're online, anyway!